tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post1120545394218475767..comments2024-02-05T05:15:04.759-08:00Comments on Wandering Scientist: Don't Be Afraid of Plan CCloudhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09317847285050447789noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-89388926636422493832012-07-15T08:48:15.998-07:002012-07-15T08:48:15.998-07:00From the poor writing I've witnessed from &quo...From the poor writing I've witnessed from "successful" non-STEM people, I'll say that the writing skills may still not be necessary.<br /><br />That said, when I eventually land a job as a science teacher, I'll be teaching those students how to read/write in the context of science! (Er, hopefully, unless curriculum and high stakes testing pressures get in the way. :(SallyNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01457195241429331445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-64185824625861619332012-07-12T19:28:46.113-07:002012-07-12T19:28:46.113-07:00That is true- some STEM fields have more easily tr...That is true- some STEM fields have more easily transferrable skills than others. But I think evolutionary biology probably has some skills that transfer. Organization of information and knowing how to draw reasonable inferences from sparse data? (Just guessing- my one and only evolutionary biology class was in college.)Cloudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317847285050447789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-22792756624675659282012-07-12T19:27:11.661-07:002012-07-12T19:27:11.661-07:00Your last point is a really good one- assuming the...Your last point is a really good one- assuming the person has learned how to write along the way. The combination of solid writing/communication skills with solid math/logic skills is killer, in my opinion.Cloudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317847285050447789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-78154265706429912242012-07-12T14:42:54.051-07:002012-07-12T14:42:54.051-07:00I'm late to this post, but I just wanted to pu...I'm late to this post, but I just wanted to put in my two cents. It does seem like STEM education/careers are an okay bet, but I wish that people promoting them would be more honest about the most useful skills in terms of flexibility and employment. As in, evolutionary biology probably isn't your best bet (that's me, btw), but if you throw some genomics on there you'll have a lot more options. *sigh*Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-83948336983738725892012-07-12T11:00:23.279-07:002012-07-12T11:00:23.279-07:00Many great points above. I'll chime in with sa...Many great points above. I'll chime in with saying I think a key point of the issue is assuming *any* path will lead to a guaranteed career in the field-of-study. Not only do economies and job markets change, but so do people's interests. <br />I'm quite glad that I took some time to work in industry rather than jumping right in to get an advanced degree. I wasn't interested in going into academia and through work experience learned that an MBA or JD would have had more of an impact on career advancement than an MS in Hydrogeology. Though since then I've changed life/career direction anyway. <br />I may be out of touch, but I still believe STEM gives people more options. As said above, it's a way of thinking and one that *is* valued by employers. A STEM degree can move into non-STEM jobs/careers more readily than a non-STEM degree can move into STEM jobs/careers.SallyNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01457195241429331445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-84817297946034351662012-07-11T02:49:14.919-07:002012-07-11T02:49:14.919-07:00As others have pointed out, there's a big diff...As others have pointed out, there's a big difference between studying science in undergrad and aspiring to a career in science. Which is something we forget when teaching science to undergrads- only a tiny tiny fraction of those students have any desire to become a scientist, and that's OK. But scientific literacy is still really important in terms of employment, personal satisfaction, and being a responsible citizen. <br /><br />My husband and I are both happily (most of the time) employed scientists, so we certainly won't be dissuading our boys from studying science or pursuing careers in science. If they do show an interest in science in general I'll probably try to inject some realism by steering them towards skills (math, programming) that are universally useful and encouraging them to consider things like future employment opportunities. <br /><br />I really liked Marcia McNutt (director of the USGS)'s 'lesson to my younger self', where she tells herself to do something significant: http://www.thedailymuse.com/career/marcia-mcnutt-do-something-significant/. I think this is a good way to direct a general interest in science along a path that will be satisfying and most likely have good job prospects as well.zednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-6937344424564635942012-07-10T18:53:08.254-07:002012-07-10T18:53:08.254-07:00I actually support the push to educate more people...I actually support the push to educate more people in the basics of STEM fields, because I think we need more people who understand the fundamentals of science. But that doesn't necessarily mean those people have to work as scientists.Cloudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317847285050447789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-83560299357233944172012-07-10T18:51:43.212-07:002012-07-10T18:51:43.212-07:00I suspect almost everyone in a field that used to ...I suspect almost everyone in a field that used to provide almost guaranteed "good jobs" feels this way. The rules changed out from under people.Cloudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317847285050447789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-16159852229470724392012-07-10T14:26:36.394-07:002012-07-10T14:26:36.394-07:00I think it's interesting that there's this...I think it's interesting that there's this whole education push celebrating STEM, when in many cases the traditional job tracks associated with such things are shrinking (though I agree with Nicole&Maggie that if you're not afraid of math, your odds in life are good). There are also the parallels, as one other poster mentioned, with law. People thought law was a safe, guaranteed well-paid career. We're now learning that's not the case. Indeed, there are no safe careers. But once you absorb that, you can look at the career world differently. What skills can I learn, what problems can I solve, how can I keep reinventing myself and thinking in an entrepreneurial fashion.Laura Vanderkamhttp://www.lauravanderkam.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-40357657876976891332012-07-10T09:16:13.350-07:002012-07-10T09:16:13.350-07:00My only plan regarding this with my child(ren) is ...My only plan regarding this with my child(ren) is to try and not discourage them from anything. DH and I talk about not wanting Evan to go into the sciences, but if it's something he loves and wants to do, we're not going to stop him. Same with anything else - except maybe drug dealer or something ;)<br /><br />I think one important thing right now is to make sure the education you're receiving is mufti-disciplinary (as kazari says above). The more transferable skills you learn, the better!Alyssahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01695509619557410413noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-89846216243601482622012-07-10T08:11:00.284-07:002012-07-10T08:11:00.284-07:00This is a very interesting post to me. I am a CPA...This is a very interesting post to me. I am a CPA, and I can tell you that there are similar stories in my career as what you describe. Outsourcing (or insourcing for that matter) to India and China, a lack of jobs, a lack of raises for those who have jobs, long hours, and shrinking benefits. I don't know that there is a professional career path out there anymore, where these issues do not lie. I guess I have always been pretty lucky - I have never been without work, and my career path has been steady. I honestly don't know if that's luck or due to who I am - probably some sort of combination.<br /><br />But, sometimes I find my job so tedius and boring. I was never exposed to the sciences as a career when I was growing up, with the exception of my mom telling me I should be a doctor (typical Jewish mom - I had three careers available to me - doctor, lawyer, or marry one of those two). It wasn't until I was an adult, that I realized there are people out there who study plants and animals for a living. People who worked outdoors, even! People who researched things for a living. In fact, only recently has the Big Bang Theory really showed me that there is a whole other world of academia out there to earn a living in.<br /><br />I guess it's really a case of the grass is greener on the other side. It seems magical to have a life where you study the sciences and get paid to do it, instead of just read articles of interest to you in your spare time. I would love to be a researcher in some way, but I don't have the funds to go back to school as it is, let alone completely change my path. Therefore, I decided I would encourage my children to explore science (if they are interested of course). I feel like I just didn't know all of the kinds of careers that exist.<br /><br />However, after reading this, it just goes to show that there isn't any magical world like that. A career is a career. All jobs have boring parts. All jobs have difficult barriers to entry. And most likely, I would suffer an allergy attack if I spent my life outdoors studying plants and animals. So, thanks for this - it helps bring me back to reality.<br /><br />There is only one last career for me to fantasize about now - writing novels. But that is a comment for another day.Joannanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-10194938218782839212012-07-10T07:12:56.139-07:002012-07-10T07:12:56.139-07:00"You won't know if you don't try, and..."You won't know if you don't try, and there is no harm in trying if you enjoy the journey and not just the outcome, and can block out the internal and external voices telling you that changing careers after getting [degree] means that you failed."<br /><br />That is really good advice.<br /><br />And what @nicoleandmaggie said is also spot-on: "I will tell my children that as long as they are not afraid of math, they'll be employable." So true.hushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05532820460835325762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-60609307832343298212012-07-10T06:42:50.458-07:002012-07-10T06:42:50.458-07:00The same thing is happening in liberal arts and so...The same thing is happening in liberal arts and social sciences, and has been for decades. I tell people to study what they love, and focus on using the content to develop skills--and then, when it is time to find a job, to focus on those skills they've developed, because they may find and love a job that they didn't even know existed.<br /><br />Regarding what I'll tell my daughter? Probably something similar. She's two, so there's no way to know what the job market, public or private, will look like in 20 years.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-13031041623443130742012-07-10T06:34:28.109-07:002012-07-10T06:34:28.109-07:00"I do not blame young scientists at all for f..."I do not blame young scientists at all for feeling like they have been left holding the bill after the collapse of a giant Ponzi scheme."<br /><br />Young/recent law grads feel the same way.mom2boynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-42024526800441410812012-07-10T06:12:21.900-07:002012-07-10T06:12:21.900-07:00I have an MS and BS in engineering. I've neve...I have an MS and BS in engineering. I've never worked as an engineer. In fact, not that many of my classmates do. We've got teachers, finance people, salespeople, etc. We're trained to think. <br /><br />I also work at a university. Non-PhDs are looked down upon, as are PhDs that are not tenure-track, (and non-scientists, too, of course) at least in the bioscience side. They do it to themselves. You're right, nothing changes until attitudes change.<br /><br />My 6yo has an aptitude for math and probably science as well. I would not push him away from that because it's the training that matters. If he goes into science/math, there will always be a job for him, even if it's not in that specific field.mary dnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-27485037830632787942012-07-10T05:17:16.355-07:002012-07-10T05:17:16.355-07:00There's a huge cottage industry training physi...There's a huge cottage industry training physicists to go into finance. They're employed, but they're working on Wall Street.<br /><br />I will tell my children that as long as they are not afraid of math, they'll be employable. So far that has remained true throughout time. Individual science degrees are the same as individual humanities degrees in my mind-- you do them because you're interested, not because you necessarily think you'll have a career doing research in that topic. There's a reason I went to a Small Liberal Arts College (SLAC) instead of viewing college as job training.<br /><br />A woman on a plane once told me they hire math majors because of the way they think, not because they can do math. A good college education will train a person to think in a certain way, to think like an engineer, to think like an economist, or english major etc. These ways of processing information, problem solving, and making decisions are useful in many fields outside of their initial purview. <br /><br />Which kind of dovetails into our deliberately controversial post from yesterday-- what is the purpose of college (and who should pay for it)?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-41888307101848053992012-07-09T23:15:37.200-07:002012-07-09T23:15:37.200-07:00My advice to students is to get a cross-training d...My advice to students is to get a cross-training degree. At my old university, law-science is a very popular combination, and one of my classmates is now VP in a venture capital firm specialising in biotech. <br />I guess the bottom line for me is that a career in science does not necessarily equal a career in research.Kristinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16305318734965153962noreply@blogger.com