tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post6844186888885746930..comments2024-02-05T05:15:04.759-08:00Comments on Wandering Scientist: Maybe It Would Help If We Called It Having a Life Instead of "It All"Cloudhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09317847285050447789noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-51764371788446841602012-06-23T20:34:53.604-07:002012-06-23T20:34:53.604-07:00Overall, I quite enjoyed the article. And even tho...Overall, I quite enjoyed the article. And even though I had to read it over two nights, I ended up liking how long and in depth it was. In the age of sound bites, I found it refreshing to dig a bit deeper. <br /><br />Before I read the article, I ignored the title, because I'd heard good things about the article. But but I must admit that this concept of 'not having it all' as it was represented in the article, is on a certain level comforting to me. I don't personally interpret it (again, as it was presented in the article...I'm well aware that the not having it all thing is often highly contentious) as meaning that you can't be engaged with your kids and have a meaningful career or high level position. I more interpret it that it's a reminder that there are some very hard choices you have to make in pursuing all that you want to do, and that you cannot always control the factors linked to these choices. I think these choices are even harder when people and relationships are involved as part of what must be chosen. When people (kids, aging parents, spouses etc) are in the balance, I think the decisions get more complex as you are balancing your needs vs. theirs, both of which are important to you. And I totally agree @cloud that the men with high profile careers that are missing out on their kids growing up aren't having 'it all' either. <br /><br />Like most others I found the second half of the article to be the best and most important part. Identifying specifically what needs to change and how is a step in the right direction. And quite frankly what all people who manage others and make decisions in workplace structure need to hear.<br /><br />What was eye opening for me was realizing that in my own small way, I'm trying to be more up front and vocal about the realities of my life as a working mother. And I've seen it have positive impacts on my boss (who's a man 10 years younger) as well. I can see that he is slowly carving out more time for his family and leaving his work at the office. He's seen through my work that you can stick to less hours and still deliver. I am lucky to have a schedule that works around my needs. But it was hard won. When my boss first became my boss, my amount of sick leave and my hours were questioned.The millinernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-52917186554008204702012-06-23T19:45:16.468-07:002012-06-23T19:45:16.468-07:00Grassroots efforts have been known to change a thi...Grassroots efforts have been known to change a thing or two ;). Keep at it, @cloud. You're probably affecting more people/the situation than you realize.The millinernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-58454122986658797762012-06-23T05:54:31.048-07:002012-06-23T05:54:31.048-07:00universal health care
AMENuniversal health care<br /><br />AMENAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-45749633125747639032012-06-23T05:41:07.406-07:002012-06-23T05:41:07.406-07:00There were parts parts I liked, parts I disliked, ...There were parts parts I liked, parts I disliked, and parts I hated. I hated the overall framing of "having it all" for all the reasons stated here and because we never use that riduculous metric in judging men so why do we insist on doing so for women? A man who was a tenured professor at Princeton who did a stint in government for two years and then returned to his job at Princeton would be considered a great success not a total failure. I understand that this is Slaughter's internal assessment of the situation but it still seems so absurd. <br /><br />Work life balance is important, really, so let's stop thinking of it as a women's issue. And while I think it's important I think it's less important than some other things, like universal health care, that would improve the lives of all working people not just professionals.scanteenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-42178332070045784392012-06-22T20:27:00.464-07:002012-06-22T20:27:00.464-07:00Thanks! I'm flattered that you like my rants b...Thanks! I'm flattered that you like my rants better than her essay. <br /><br />I don't blame her for the headline or the obnoxious cover art, because she almost certainly had nothing to do with it. <br /><br />I wonder if there is a generational difference in our opinions on what an involved father would feel in a similar situation? My Dad was a very involved father by his generation's standards, but my husband is even more involved and he's only a little bit above the norm for his generation. From what I hear, Gen Y expects even more involvement. Which is great. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out int he work place over the next 10-20 years.Cloudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317847285050447789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-54202217315328355732012-06-22T20:22:31.434-07:002012-06-22T20:22:31.434-07:00Thanks! I wouldn't hold your breath for the bo...Thanks! I wouldn't hold your breath for the book, unfortunately. It would be quite an undertaking, and I don't know that I'm up for that big of a hobby project right now. But I may start gathering material....Cloudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317847285050447789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-21986698179409148092012-06-22T20:21:32.771-07:002012-06-22T20:21:32.771-07:00Thanks!Thanks!Cloudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317847285050447789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-85459434954111666292012-06-22T20:21:02.543-07:002012-06-22T20:21:02.543-07:00Shameless self-promotion is always fine here, as l...Shameless self-promotion is always fine here, as long as it is roughly on topic! I've been thinking of adding links at the bottom of this to all the great posts other people have written on the topic, but I fear I am not going to have the time to do that before everyone moves on. <br /><br />It is interesting, I don't disagree with your post, but for some reason the bad parts of her essay annoyed me less. I'm not sure why. Maybe because I've been on the receiving end of some comments about how I'm sugar-coating my life or not acknowledging that there are structural problems that cause some women to find the balance too hard. I've got the beginnings of a post about that bouncing around in my head.<br /><br />I missed seeing you around the 'net, too. I'm always happy when I new post from you pops up in my RSS feed!Cloudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317847285050447789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-84695244266759173272012-06-22T14:50:10.473-07:002012-06-22T14:50:10.473-07:00Love your post. Haven't gone through comments ...Love your post. Haven't gone through comments but I do love that you apply your thoughts to daily life. I have to do so, too. Sometimes speaking up and small changes do make a difference.oilgarlichttp://oilandgarlic.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-47175435953321724192012-06-22T14:37:27.634-07:002012-06-22T14:37:27.634-07:00Cloud, I realize that in my time away from the int...Cloud, I realize that in my time away from the internet, I've missed you. <br /><br />I did not like the piece at all -- mostly because I'm mystified that AM Slaughter, who should know better, let herself be co-opted into The Atlantic's traffic grabbing mommy wars. She could have written something that elaborated on what you and I both think is the best part of the article -- and in fact been more explicit about the underlying sexism and double-standard. <br /><br />Instead the framing of the piece vaguely suggests that women with challenging jobs might have teenagers who turn out to be difficult (and women who are SAHMs will have much "better" kids). It's suggests that there is just one "having it all" when there are as many definitions of that term as there are people. And it, infuriatingly, still defines work life fit as a women's issue versus a people issue.<br /><br />And you are absolutely right about bad management being core to this issue. I think many women are in jobs they hate largely because of bad management, and this is an incentive to opt out when they have kids. Even though in absolute terms their definition of "having it all" is not about even a full-time caregiver.<br /><br />Shameless self-promotion: here's my post on Slaughter.<br />http://themamabee.wordpress.com/2012/06/22/who-thinks-they-can-have-it-all/<br /><br />You rock. Keep the faith. <br />TMBAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-29730849497873059192012-06-22T11:34:07.198-07:002012-06-22T11:34:07.198-07:00One of my overworked female colleagues keeps tryin...One of my overworked female colleagues keeps trying to get me to take her place on the uni work-life balance committee... a committee that basically does nothing but has long useless meetings.<br /><br />This last time I told her we need to have a guy as our department rep. Apparently there are currently only two gentlemen on said committee (because there are no women in those departments). Work-life balance isn't just a woman's issue and putting useless meetings only on women's shoulders doesn't actually help gender inequity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-74145179634197768942012-06-22T10:48:52.451-07:002012-06-22T10:48:52.451-07:00Excited to see somebody else reading Blaffer Hrdy....Excited to see somebody else reading Blaffer Hrdy. Love her stuff and would love to see some posts and discussions of it. Did somebody say book club?<br /><br />I am puzzled by how much these issues are framed almost exclusively as women's issues. It's a cop out, I think. A way to avoid having to take a realistic look at just how broken our system is. Obviously, it's not just a "women's problem," but if we call it that, we can, as a culture, take it less seriously. The availability of quality, affordable childcare, flexible schedules, the uncoupling of health insurance from full-time work, all of these things would open the door to more choice for all parents. But we are told constantly by policy makers and the media that these are "women's issues," which seem to fall somewhere well below erectile disfunction research on the list of priorities.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-56923226388134859512012-06-22T10:02:53.773-07:002012-06-22T10:02:53.773-07:00Please, please, please write that book about proje...Please, please, please write that book about project management. Project management skills in scientific academic labs are dearly missing. Simple concepts as a resources (as in lab techs) cannot be utilized more than 100% are often not understood. Anyway, I'd order a copy of your book right now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-55579404461652987352012-06-22T09:38:17.531-07:002012-06-22T09:38:17.531-07:00ITA, Ana. Too long, with the solution part buried...ITA, Ana. Too long, with the solution part buried at the end (long after people stopped reading), and not a women's issue by far.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15212690454989568626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-65234261852889059562012-06-22T09:36:58.950-07:002012-06-22T09:36:58.950-07:00Ooh, me too re: Mother Nature. N&M, our daugh...Ooh, me too re: Mother Nature. N&M, our daughter sounds like your son. My husband did a lot of the baby care, night soothing, and was home with her 2 days a week when I went back to work after mat leave, so maybe that makes him think differently from other daddies. I could buy that it's biological, but changed by the environment (ie how much time you spend, etc.)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15212690454989568626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-66421778975952594722012-06-22T09:33:37.754-07:002012-06-22T09:33:37.754-07:00Oh, you were actually thinking about doing the coo...Oh, you were actually thinking about doing the cooking? I thought you just wanted the perfect recipe. :) http://nicoleandmaggie.wordpress.com/2011/12/20/is-baking-a-thing-where-you-are/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-18623771620476931382012-06-22T08:52:26.040-07:002012-06-22T08:52:26.040-07:00My son was a daddy's boy even as a baby. Momm...My son was a daddy's boy even as a baby. Mommy needed her sleep, daddy was willing to get up and walk (assuming the problem wasn't food-- I can totally sleep-nurse). And you could definitely see changes when one or the other of us was gone for a conference, he'd either become more clingy or less clingy depending on his age. And these changes were exactly the opposite of what most of the other women on the mommy forum I was on at that time were going through. When their babies wanted mommy, mine wanted daddy. When their older babies wanted daddy, mine wanted mommy. And I'm sure that was directly connected to how much time was spent interacting.<br /><br />I'm glad my husband is such a good mommy. Takes off a lot of the mommy guilt, since I figure a kid only needs so much parenting.<br /><br />I'd like to read posts on Mother Nature!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-69807892599825455692012-06-22T08:44:14.598-07:002012-06-22T08:44:14.598-07:00I think we're agreed 100%.
Basically my point...I think we're agreed 100%.<br /><br />Basically my point is... it seems like she went from Black to White... and maybe there's a compromise Grey that we should be considering! And that grey doesn't just affect or fall on women!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-41253454428316565992012-06-22T08:43:42.301-07:002012-06-22T08:43:42.301-07:00Dr SLaughter's needlessly wordy & unfocuse...<i>Dr SLaughter's needlessly wordy & unfocused essay</i><br /><br />Amen. Reading it, I thought to myself how unnecessarily, excruciatingly long the whole piece was. I nearly gave up on page 4. <br />In many journals in my field, when you review a paper, there is an option to check whether the paper is too short, too long, or just the right length for the actual content. I found myself wishing there were a "Too long for content" button that I could press (over and over). That piece should have been edited much more aggressively.GMPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17872461021953583473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-47427380513871701002012-06-22T08:07:08.922-07:002012-06-22T08:07:08.922-07:00Hi Cloud...been reading for a little while now, bu...Hi Cloud...been reading for a little while now, but mostly catching up on your archives (good use of nursing time) so this is my first comment. I'm going to preface it by saying I amazingly agree with at LEAST 95% of anything you're ever written. <br />However, I was disappointed in the article. I really think she missed a huge opportunity to make a statement about, as you say, "having a life" and current work culture. But by framing it as a "women's"---or worse a "mothers'" issue, she marginalized the topic & automatically relegated it to the ranks of just another "mommy war" article. At the very very least she could've refrained from the whole "mothers feel the pull" more innately nonsense and posed this as the difficulty of PARENTS working very high powered jobs. For heavens sake, she's talking about her 14-year old boy---there is no pregnancy/maternity leave/breastfeeding involved---so she could easily bypass any criticism of women's "biological imperative" and all that with her situation. If her husband had the same job, wouldn't he feel needed back home when the teenage son was having troubles? I call BS that an involved father wouldn't be as troubled or "pulled" as a mother. total BS.<br />OF course, there is the purposefully annoyingly inflammatory title. I think everyone who's commented agrees that the phrase "having it all" means absolutely nothing. She's not talking about having it all. She's not even talking about just combining a meaningful career & involved parenting---she clearly did that at Princeton before/after her government position. She's talking specifically about being at the tippy-top of her field. She's responding to Sheryl Sandburg and her "leaning in" advice, by arguing that the reason that women aren't at the top has nothing to do with ambition and everything to do with structural roadblocks. I do agree with this part of her essay, though I wish she's spent more time on really elaborating on concrete changes that any employer can make to improve work/life balance for ALL workers. She adds "enlisting men" at the very end, and frames it as if men would only be interested in promoting such changes as a favor to women, as if they wouldn't benefit just as much. <br />Overall I think YOUR rants on work/life balance (for all!) are much more effective than Dr SLaughter's needlessly wordy & unfocused essay.anahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18320182732889825712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-41566146583810639762012-06-22T08:03:04.730-07:002012-06-22T08:03:04.730-07:00Believe me, I'm no adherent to giving up. I&#...Believe me, I'm no adherent to giving up. I'm all about pushing as hard as I can, for myself, the younger generation, and my kids (there's this great line in the season Finale of Friday Night Lights, where Tammy says [in the context of turning down a job she really wants to benefit her husband's career] What are we going to tell our daughters?" I feel the same way about my sons). I think it's a balance - working for changing, pushing back, empathizing with those not in a position to do so, finding partial solutions.Erinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-54563504954274575072012-06-22T07:55:17.620-07:002012-06-22T07:55:17.620-07:00I definitely feel this pull, which I define for my...I definitely feel this pull, which I define for myself as biological because it feels visceral to me, rather than emotional. I become deeply anxious when I'm separated from my kids. But my husband is away from them for 20-25 weeks a year ( only alternating weekends during those periods). I could. Not. Do. That. I've left one of them for near three weeks. We'll see what happens when I leave both for three weeks. My husband is 100% co-parent, but it's true that I had long maternity leaves, nursed, and have always been the stable primary care provider, because of the logistics of our situation. I feel uncomfortable thinking about "biology" but for me closeness to them, esp as babies, is an imperative.Erinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-73229987651248959972012-06-22T07:03:17.895-07:002012-06-22T07:03:17.895-07:00Hee hee. Thanks, guys! But I'm ok with the med...Hee hee. Thanks, guys! But I'm ok with the mediocrity of my cooking right now. The kids aren't really gourmands yet. And my husband makes really good things on the weekends. I'll get to make really good things again some day, too.<br /><br />I hire a kick ass baker to make cupcakes for my kids' parties. I make pretty good cupcakes. She makes AWESOME cupcakes. (Jennywennycakes, for those in the San Diego area.)Cloudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317847285050447789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-67722955879751145952012-06-22T07:01:23.179-07:002012-06-22T07:01:23.179-07:00Thanks! My solutions all feel really small to me, ...Thanks! My solutions all feel really small to me, but then I think, well at least the nursing moms at my company have a well designed lactation room now. And maybe a few people are starting to challenge their assumptions about hours and productivity, because the fact that I leave at 4:30 is well known, but because of the nature of my team's work, our productivity is pretty obvious, too.<br /><br />So I don't know. I still wish for a wider solution, but maybe the "bottom up" approach will get somewhere.Cloudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317847285050447789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-22461426776830863992012-06-22T06:59:10.486-07:002012-06-22T06:59:10.486-07:00I've been reading Mother Nature by Sarah Hrdy ...I've been reading Mother Nature by Sarah Hrdy (see sidebar), and from that and some other things I've read, I think the fact that mothers feel more pull than fathers is biological, but not innate. The evidence indicates that it is likely to be induced by the amount of time we spend with our kids as babies, and there is also some evidence that similar changes are induced in fathers who spend large amounts of time caring for babies.<br /><br />I think I need to write a post on what I've learned from Mother Nature so far. There is so much in there, it might not be smart to wait and put it all in one post when I finish.Cloudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317847285050447789noreply@blogger.com