tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post3259053863374388701..comments2024-02-05T05:15:04.759-08:00Comments on Wandering Scientist: On Saying Stupid Things and Internet OutrageCloudhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09317847285050447789noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-76459301190119880732015-08-09T09:03:34.451-07:002015-08-09T09:03:34.451-07:00In the Tim Hunt case, there were several independe...In the Tim Hunt case, there were several independent (and trained!) observers there who all heard essentially the same thing. In the Lemony Snicket case, there was a videotape. In other cases, there have been screenshots of the actual tweets. I cannot think of a case where people were upset over something that wasn't actually said. However, I'll think about the case in the hypothetical.<br /><br />If you are on the receiving end of outrage about something you didn't say, I think you would defuse much like you'd defuse outrage over something you DID say. "I didn't say X. I said Y." The listen, and see if you can understand if people are actually upset over what you did say, and if so, understand why and apologize for that. If they were misinformed about your actual words, acknowledge that what they thought you said would be bad, and reiterate that you didn't say that. But that only works if they actually have the wrong words. If they have your actual words, and the difference is just that you thought you were making a joke or intended them differently than they were received... Sorry, you'd better apologize. As John Scalzi says, "the failure mode of clever is asshole." If your attempt at clever failed, you should apologize.Cloudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317847285050447789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-53873805442668942762015-08-08T20:25:21.767-07:002015-08-08T20:25:21.767-07:00This is a very insightful blog post and I have spe...This is a very insightful blog post and I have spent a long time thinking about it.<br /><br />I completely agree with you, and am curious what is the right answer to the following question: what happens when someone is accused of saying something he didn't actually say? Its certainly possible for mobs to believe thing that are not true and stil get outraged about untruths.<br /><br />In the new set of rules, should the accused offender have to apologize even if he did not say what he was accused of saying?<br />YZnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-47366976410406486612015-06-17T07:29:41.497-07:002015-06-17T07:29:41.497-07:00Adria Richards *who did nothing wrong*. No, we...Adria Richards *who did nothing wrong*. No, we're already policing any woman (POC or white) who shames white male racists or misogynists. We're not doing such a good job policing the white male racists and misogynists themselves. <br /><br />And that is no doubt why nearly all the commentary on Tim Hunt by women has been in the form of cute positive pictures of themselves rather than calls for him to step down (or be fired) from anything. We know it's too dangerous. Dangerous to our careers, to our lives, to our children.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-54197411986295853982015-06-17T06:29:53.743-07:002015-06-17T06:29:53.743-07:00Even if Larry Summers HAD been fired for his sexis...Even if Larry Summers HAD been fired for his sexist remarks... it isn't like his career was over! I mean "White House adviser" isn't exactly a nothing job.<br /><br />Adria Richards, meanwhile, reports that she is still struggling to find new work.Cloudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317847285050447789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-81681130936889263262015-06-17T04:56:00.352-07:002015-06-17T04:56:00.352-07:00You are on point.
Something else I would note-- t...You are on point.<br /><br />Something else I would note-- the people who are actually hurt when they say something -ist (or even not -ist-- see Adria Richards) almost 100% women. (But what about Larry Summers, random people ask... No, Larry Summers was *not* fired because of his ignorant comments about women, but stepped down because his micromanaging of the faculty made him extremely unpopular.) That woman with the aids tweet comes to mind. Even the guy who Adra Richards tweeted about was fired because he had a long history of awfulness and even so, he's happily reemployed.<br /><br />As I've gotten older I've become more and more sympathetic with Malcolm X, though in a "shame" rather than violence way. Culture isn't going to change if people who make it difficult for everyone who isn't a CIS white male are given head pats. They deserve to be shamed for their bad behavior. (Ironically, this weekend if the car had been moving slower I would have stuck my head out of the window and told the Catholics holding the anti-gay marriage sign that they should be ashamed of themselves, but instead I just had time to give them the finger.)<br /><br />Yoisthisracist is right, tell off and peace out. And yes, I get that doing that leads to people making fun of white women for calling things out as racist, but it's still worth it.<br /><br />So Tim Hunt-- you deserve worse than to resign from your unpaid honorary position. You shouldn't be allowed to hurt the careers of women. But nothing is going to happen. And you aren't going to learn. And the journal Nature is going to continue to double and triple down on its sexism. But maybe in another 50-100 years science will get to the point that the rest of research community is at where they know they're not supposed to be explicitly sexist even though they still have major implicit biases. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-49756924133682913482015-06-17T01:51:32.489-07:002015-06-17T01:51:32.489-07:00Very good point.
What's interesting to me is ...Very good point. <br />What's interesting to me is that he made the comment in front of an audience of science communicators and journalists at a conference *about* women in science, and he can't understand why it went down like a lead balloon!<br /><br />Also interesting to me was an interview with him and his wife (who is a professor, go her!), and they started talking about how he's a man of his time, the 70s, and that sort of thing was ok to say then! A) that was 30 years ago, catch up! B) it wasn't actually okay back then, only there weren't the consequences.<br />C) his wife defended him as "not a Sexist, else why would I be married to him?", not understanding that implicit biases are a thing, and that everyone, but everyone, carries sexist attitudes to some degree because of the culture we're marinating in. Even self-professed feminist women carry such attitudes and suffer the consequences. NessieMonsterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08391527413257229674noreply@blogger.com