tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post4985940202139964955..comments2024-02-05T05:15:04.759-08:00Comments on Wandering Scientist: PerspectiveCloudhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09317847285050447789noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-13945578283774379002012-03-21T18:49:50.366-07:002012-03-21T18:49:50.366-07:00I'm glad you're enjoying the book (I think...I'm glad you're enjoying the book (I think I recommended it?). It's true there's plenty of horrid stuff in there ... it sounds like you haven't gotten to the pictures (which are in a concentrated section as I'm sure you know though if memory serves they draw on/illustrate different points made in the book), but there is one in there that just destroys me every time of the boy/girl twins of an (east) Indian woman whose MIL took the daughter and fed her formula while the boy baby got all the breastmilk (spoiler alert: the daughter died of disease/malnutrition while her brother thrived; the physical differences between them in the photo are ... what? Well, huge, and noticeable, and of course because of the girl's condition depressing. It is also a good reminder of how decision-making for many humans isn't an individual-level or maternal-level thing, i.e. it was the MIL not the M who decided). <br /><br />Resource-poor environments are part of the difference of course, and every time I look at my son's phenomenal energy level I think (picture my fatigue in the face of his energy!) "in ... a ... resource-poor ... environment ... this [energy] ... would ... make ... evolutionary ... sense." And then I fall over from exhaustion while he spins around the room. <br /><br />But beyond resource-poor and its effects on nutrition and development I think we are (science is) becoming increasingly aware of the ways in which exposure to certain kinds of trauma, especially for the very young (I'm thinking here of e.g. attachment disorder in babies who truly lack stable caregiving -- returning, I guess, to the baby monkeys), really does mess our mental development up in deep and sometimes permanent ways. I'm not saying every evil act (murder, etc.) can be explained away, but I do wonder to what extent that phenomenon (trauma's impact on neurodevelopment, development of empathy, etc.) has contributed to some of the more horrible acts committed over history (and today).Alexicographernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-41424359478370321572012-03-21T18:37:33.845-07:002012-03-21T18:37:33.845-07:00@Oilandgarlic I haven't seen the film but did ...@Oilandgarlic I haven't seen the film but did run across a reference to it recently and did a little googling; it is called The Cove.Alexicographernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-51323493676160738292012-03-21T12:39:31.899-07:002012-03-21T12:39:31.899-07:00I have some concerns about zoos but not enough to ...I have some concerns about zoos but not enough to stop going. I saw a documentary about killer whale/dolphin killings in Japan and I believe that Sea World and similar institutions were also part of the problem because these round-ups were used to select animals for performance. The rest were slaughtered for food. Does anyone else remember this documentary?oilandgarlichttp://oilandgarlic.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-19184335662927519862012-03-21T11:11:08.289-07:002012-03-21T11:11:08.289-07:00I feel bad about all the animals who aren't sa...I feel bad about all the animals who aren't safe in their natural habitats because either they're being hunted by poachers or we're destroying their natural habitats. Without zoos, some of these species will be lost forever.<br /><br />I also feel bad about the abused illegally poached pets who often end up in zoos. But I'm glad the zoos are there to protect them too.<br /><br />We've mostly been to larger zoos where it is obvious that the animals are the main priority, not people's viewing of them. I'm fine with seeing large landscapes and trying to pick out the animals.nicoleandmaggiehttp://nicoleandmaggie.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-37000626366101593532012-03-21T07:51:21.857-07:002012-03-21T07:51:21.857-07:00Most of the zoos I've been to don't have m...Most of the zoos I've been to don't have much space for the big animals. To its credit, the one in Seattle is remodeling a lot of the habitats to make them bigger. I feel better about the ones where the animal was born in captivity, but I feel about the zoo the same way I did when I went to the British Museum and saw all the stuff they ripped off from India. Things just weren't where they belonged. Simplistic, maybe, but I also feel weird about animals being our entertainment. (Our very pampered pets aside.)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15212690454989568626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-28953783079357068152012-03-20T21:46:59.407-07:002012-03-20T21:46:59.407-07:00I don't really have any problem with a well do...I don't really have any problem with a well done Zoo, either. Sea World... well, it used to be different. They do still do some research and they are where distressed sea animals rescued in San Diego go for rehabilitation. So I'm mostly OK with them, too. To me, zoos and ocean parks are one of those complicated things that I don't have complete moral clarity on.Cloudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317847285050447789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-29248175678803172012012-03-20T13:59:30.366-07:002012-03-20T13:59:30.366-07:00I don't get anti-zoo sentiments. Zoos do so m...I don't get anti-zoo sentiments. Zoos do so much for conservation of species and research. Yes, we prefer the big ones where you are less likely to be able to see the animals, but we're definitely not anti-zoo.nicoleandmaggiehttp://nicoleandmaggie.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-31868574336177438942012-03-20T13:40:57.087-07:002012-03-20T13:40:57.087-07:00I'm amazed at how many dumb things people beli...I'm amazed at how many dumb things people believed - like that babies don't feel pain. It's like, um, have you ever been around infants?Laura Vanderkamhttp://www.lauravanderkam.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-19300967619644085082012-03-20T13:17:46.203-07:002012-03-20T13:17:46.203-07:00This is my exact thought process as well.This is my exact thought process as well.Jac.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-76839637795235949952012-03-20T12:40:21.871-07:002012-03-20T12:40:21.871-07:00Yep, that's why we're not frequent visitor...Yep, that's why we're not frequent visitors to the zoo as well. I'd be happy skipping it entirely, but my hubby likes it, and of course, so does my child.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15212690454989568626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-84727946124887587662012-03-20T12:39:12.301-07:002012-03-20T12:39:12.301-07:00Ugh, I can't read any of these things either. ...Ugh, I can't read any of these things either. I skipped a lot of the animal experiment stuff in What's Going on In There as well.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15212690454989568626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-26749324239099032312012-03-20T12:24:33.629-07:002012-03-20T12:24:33.629-07:00@mom2boy, my husband boycotts the zoo for precisel...@mom2boy, my husband boycotts the zoo for precisely that reason. We generally boycott all forms of animal-forced entertainment (Sea World, I'm looking at you!), but I take the kids to the zoo because I'm more ambivalent about it, since they do education and breeding and stuff. But yeah, it's still really sad. No wonder the elephants lose their minds sometimes. <br /><br />I can't read the stories about the baby monkeys. It's too much for me.Erinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-46590750341633310982012-03-20T10:04:45.722-07:002012-03-20T10:04:45.722-07:00Amen!Amen!hushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05532820460835325762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-30936575214047998712012-03-20T09:49:05.055-07:002012-03-20T09:49:05.055-07:00Human development is a complex thing and we should...Human development is a complex thing and we should be humble. Two very good thoughts for today. <br />Seeing monkeys at the zoo and thinking about how limited a life that is compared to wild in the jungle makes me sad. And yet I still go with Tate and say, See the monkeys! People are full of contradictions.mom2boyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00784436196685595115noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-25995221910100167572012-03-20T08:01:51.966-07:002012-03-20T08:01:51.966-07:00Ah, perspective... Some days I need the reality ch...Ah, perspective... Some days I need the reality check that my problems AREN'T world-shattering, like so many of the ones you've listed here.<br /><br />Also, this book by Sarah Hrdy has been on my "should get to reading that sometime" list for a bit, but I haven't done anything about it... But this post pushed me to take the step and actually reserve it at the library! ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-24571199629285533482012-03-20T06:55:03.329-07:002012-03-20T06:55:03.329-07:00I have a really hard time reading about that sort ...I have a really hard time reading about that sort of thing, too. But it does remind me that we're a pretty resilient species, and that probably the fact that I lose my temper in front of my kids every now and then isn't doing them any lasting harm.Cloudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317847285050447789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-85288810613404544482012-03-20T06:52:47.488-07:002012-03-20T06:52:47.488-07:00Yeah, there is some research that I can intellectu...Yeah, there is some research that I can intellectually see the value of, but emotionally have a hard time handling.<br /><br />But as depressing as the wire monkey mom research is, the description of how they used to separate babies from their mothers in hospitals- because they thought that cross-contamination from the moms was making the babies sick- is even more depressing. A lot of babies died because of this treatment. So sad.Cloudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317847285050447789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-88508075912545245382012-03-20T04:09:48.049-07:002012-03-20T04:09:48.049-07:00I always tell student that if the historical does ...I always tell student that if the historical does nothing else for you it will put your life into perspective! The one time I almost cried in class was teaching something that would be considered "child abuse" now but "good parenting" in the past. I was pg with fMhgirl and it all hit home too muchfeMOMhisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17192104351023271207noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-47653519124610534142012-03-19T23:11:41.638-07:002012-03-19T23:11:41.638-07:00That's depressing. :(
I couldn't get thr...That's depressing. :(<br /><br />I couldn't get through What's Going on In There after she talked about the visual experiments they did on kittens. Not cool.nicoleandmaggiehttp://nicoleandmaggie.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.com