tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post5106611736769147926..comments2024-02-05T05:15:04.759-08:00Comments on Wandering Scientist: Working from Home, Leaning In and All That JazzCloudhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09317847285050447789noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-7734813659994299892015-02-23T09:01:58.381-08:002015-02-23T09:01:58.381-08:00This is some awesome stuff i like it. I enjoyed re...This is some awesome stuff i like it. I enjoyed reading your articles. This is truly a great read for me. I have bookmarked it and I am looking forward to reading new articles on the same matter<br /><a href="http://composieten-keukenwerkbladen.nl" rel="nofollow">composiet keukenwerkblad</a> <br />Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12827793746165234437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-76544398150258492622014-04-29T21:01:56.709-07:002014-04-29T21:01:56.709-07:00Good Post.Good Post.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06686039484393207158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-25299033088381523662013-03-06T07:08:08.460-08:002013-03-06T07:08:08.460-08:00And reading lower, assuming you're the same an...And reading lower, assuming you're the same anonymous, yes it does... because she'd also be failing the feminist sisterhood by not achieving. You're holding her to an impossible standard. And one that you're not holding, say, Donald Trump to.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-30956024317355508672013-03-06T07:04:08.421-08:002013-03-06T07:04:08.421-08:00It has to do with Cloud's comment.
We don...It has to do with Cloud's comment. <br /><br />We don't allow "Anonymous" to comment on our blog, btw. If they don't give a name, we assign one.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-72529534817117614572013-03-05T20:55:47.865-08:002013-03-05T20:55:47.865-08:00@Anonymous who is mad that Mayer disavows feminism...@Anonymous who is mad that Mayer disavows feminism- It really would be easier if you'd pick a pseudonym. I think you've posted on prior posts about Mayer, and I would have acknowledged the fact that you clearly do understand the engineering/tech world in my comment if I'd had any idea you were the same anonymous. You don't have to link to anything to have a pseudonym, just pick a handle that you'll post under. I suspect some of your reaction to this post is colored by my earlier post, and the conversation would have advanced better if I'd known that.<br /><br />But anyway... Literally no one here is saying that they agree with Mayer's stance on feminism. The most any of us are saying is that we understand where it comes from but we disagree and consider ourselves feminists. <br /><br />Personally, I am hugely grateful for the activists who came before me. Hugely. But I wonder what they would think about the strain of feminism out there today that seems just itching to pounce on any woman who is successful in business and doesn't do things exactly how they think she should do them. This is a ridiculous and impossible standard for any human being to meet, let alone one who also has to answer to shareholders and a board. I suspect that some of this ugliness comes from a distrust business and business leaders in general, but that is just a suspicion, and is not backed by data. Regardless, people who act like this really shouldn't be surprised if that means that women like Mayer disavow them. In my opinion, people who act like this do the larger cause of feminism a disservice, because they get a lot of press and associate the word "feminism" with impossible demands that anyone who's spent much time in a for profit environment will recognize as rather ridiculous. But that's another argument altogether.<br /><br />So back to the point of the post: what does Mayer's stance on feminism have to do with her business decision on telecommuting? That, after all, was the main gist of the portion of my post that was about her. Feminist or not, she had to make that decision based on her business needs. She is running a business not a social movement, after all.<br /><br />Also, no one said anything against holding Mayer to a higher standard than people with less privilege and power. In fact, no one said anything about that at all. I said she should be held to the same standard as male CEOs, and I stand by that. I absolutely reject the idea that I should be held to a higher standard than my male colleagues when it comes to feminist issues. Equality is an issue for everyone to address, and we all answer to the same standards. There is no way I can get behind letting the men off the hook on this. I can see, and possibly support, the argument that the more powerful have an obligation to step up and do more... but doesn't that then support the idea that the male CEOs should be held to a HIGHER standard than Mayer, and not vice versa? After all, men still hold more power than women in our society.<br /><br />If you want to engage with any of the ideas I actually espoused in the post, I'm happy to continue this discussion. If you just want to talk about how disappointed you are that Mayer says she is not a feminist... well, I think there is nothing more to discuss there. Sure, I agree. I think she should read her history and show some more respect for the women who came before her. Are we good on this point now?Cloudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317847285050447789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-70563651084516173932013-03-05T19:53:05.392-08:002013-03-05T19:53:05.392-08:00@Cloud: Well, I was 2 yrs behind Mayer at Stanford...@Cloud: Well, I was 2 yrs behind Mayer at Stanford and worked as an engineer in Silicon Valley for 8 yrs; amazingly, this did not prevent me from becoming a feminist. I think Mayer knows exactly what she’s doing when she disavows the feminist movement, from which she has benefited enormously. But that should come as no surprise to anyone; other women before her have done the same thing. It’s too bad that some people are so hard up for role models these days that they can’t bear to do anything except turn a blind eye to this. Shame on them and shame on Mayer!<br /><br />@N&M: The post you linked to has nothing to do with my comment. To put it in your terms: Mayer is “failing the feminist sisterhood” by perpetuating ugly, hackneyed stereotypes about feminists.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-8289412754529969792013-03-05T19:40:42.412-08:002013-03-05T19:40:42.412-08:00“Similarly, there are other social movements with ...“Similarly, there are other social movements with groups that behave in that manner, and those more vocal of the group tend to dominate the meaning/name.”<br /><br />Only if the moderates turn their back on the movement. Look, there’s no denying that women are where they are today because once upon a time, there were women brave enough to be militant and point out the inequities, and that made them look like they had a chip on their shoulder. Women in the workplace today have it a lot better because of these “militants,” and people shouldn’t conveniently forget about that when they think it’s no longer needed. And this goes double for extremely successful women today. Yeah, I expect more from the rich and powerful (and female, in this case) than I do from the just-barely-getting-by -- get over it! Although asking that Mayer not result to ugly, hackneyed stereotypes when talking about feminists is really not so much to ask.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-27050370588107845702013-03-05T18:23:08.758-08:002013-03-05T18:23:08.758-08:00Agreed! with emphasis :)Agreed! with emphasis :)Revanchehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07293868300535734672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-58230262478963015362013-03-05T18:22:08.120-08:002013-03-05T18:22:08.120-08:00Thanks to N&M for linking to me up there.
My...Thanks to N&M for linking to me up there. <br /><br />My post was already going on forever, otherwise I would have added the point that, in fact, I disagree with MM's views on feminism but I can see where she's coming from when I see contingents of feminists jumping up and down on people's heads declaring that they aren't good enough men/ women/ whatever. <br /><br />That doesn't define feminism for me because I AM a feminist, and I have friends who are feminists and we care about equality and fairness and don't tear people apart for not being in lockstep with us, but the fact remains, there is some percentage of the feminist population that does behave as though there is a chip on their shoulder and do behave militantly. Similarly, there are other social movements with groups that behave in that manner, and those more vocal of the group tend to dominate the meaning/name. <br /><br />At the end of the day: my disagreement with her personal views doesn't affect what I think about her business decision. Revanchehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07293868300535734672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-32833275056164180452013-03-05T11:14:35.286-08:002013-03-05T11:14:35.286-08:00Thanks - done!
http://husheveryone.blogspot.com/2...Thanks - done!<br /><br />http://husheveryone.blogspot.com/2013/03/on-innovation-and-yahoos-telework-ban.htmlhushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05532820460835325762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-35497577498443207342013-03-04T19:03:03.051-08:002013-03-04T19:03:03.051-08:00I get annoyed with the carping at successful women...I get annoyed with the carping at successful women for reasons of privilege, etc. When Donald Trump writes a book on success, no one says "well, that's easy for him to say because someone else is cleaning his bathrooms" or "of course he's successful because he can afford a nanny." People who reach the top often have interesting things to say about what it takes to reach the top. Sometimes it's helpful to listen or read without judging, and if you decide it's wrong for you, fine. But if a strategy is wrong for you, that doesn't make someone who used it, ipso facto, a bad person. Yes, I'm referring to the Sheryl Sandberg backlash, but this mindset is out there a lot. Laura Vanderkamhttp://www.lauravanderkam.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-39622742784168315652013-03-04T10:57:34.902-08:002013-03-04T10:57:34.902-08:00I find the controversy odd. Everyone is acting as ...I find the controversy odd. Everyone is acting as if the Yahoo decision is a) permanent and b) sets some general trend that everyone will be pressured to follow. Mayer has been put in a position to rapidly turn around Yahoo before it fails and I'm sure will find it easier to create a new corporate environment if everyone is actually present. The story about her nursery is also silly. A CEO has unique perks and unique challenges: the hours are so long she may not see her baby if it isn't in the next room sometimes. If she expects the same hours from her employees--that's when it get hypocritical.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-30820468388607386772013-03-04T04:57:36.847-08:002013-03-04T04:57:36.847-08:00http://nicoleandmaggie.wordpress.com/2011/08/04/st...http://nicoleandmaggie.wordpress.com/2011/08/04/starting-to-understand-the-feminist-backlash/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-13428902355931932782013-03-03T21:50:57.815-08:002013-03-03T21:50:57.815-08:00I think if you read my post again you'll notic...I think if you read my post again you'll notice that I didn't say you shouldn't criticize Mayer. I said that if you're going to criticize Mayer, you should also criticize Brin and Page and a host of other male executives who have made similar policies and whose opinion on feminism is never queried. <br /><br />I disagree with Mayer's statements about feminism and feminists. However, I think I understand where they come from, and I suspect you do not. I do not mean that in a mean way- just that I think that the people who really understand feminist theory and history and the people who really understand the mindset that comes from studying engineering and working in tech are two largely non-overlapping sets. Of course, I could be wrong about your background, but since you've chosen to post completely anonymously, I don't have much to go on.<br /><br />If Mayer's ignorant comments about feminism were all people were criticizing, I'd think we'd missed a chance to learn something via a less vituperative dialogue, but nothing worse. But that isn't all people are criticizing, not by a long shot. In fact, the criticisms I was thinking of when I wrote this post were completely unrelated to her opinions on feminism- I was thinking of how she has been treating in the mainstream press, not in feminist media, which I will confess I largely do not read, because it largely seems to dislike women like me. And why put myself through that?Cloudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317847285050447789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-18869166901862821652013-03-03T20:26:58.583-08:002013-03-03T20:26:58.583-08:00It's far from perfect but I do in fact ride a ...It's far from perfect but I do in fact ride a public bus to work (~20 minutes, in principle accessible from my home via another bus but in reality I drive to the bus stop) that has wifi. My employer (large) pays for my bus pass. So, yes, there are ways to start to address some of these issues that involve public-private partnerships and/or the public sector (I could buy my own bus pass).<br /><br />Though the wifi on this particular bus is woefully slow.Alexicographernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-16625837987827292262013-03-03T19:10:30.957-08:002013-03-03T19:10:30.957-08:00badmomgoodmom wrote: "She's the boss and ...badmomgoodmom wrote: "She's the boss and she does have business authority. She has no moral authority. Lead by example. She failed big time."<br /><br />I couldn't agree more! And yes, Cloud, let's hold all CEOs accountable. But Mayer doesn't get a free pass from me because she's a woman, or because CEOs before her haven't been held accountable by others. Really, I should hold my tongue out of a sense of fellowship and fairness to a woman who has publicly described me and my fellow feminists as "militant" people with "chips their shoulders" that she just can't relate to? I don't think so....<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-51200426189730958212013-03-03T17:00:38.614-08:002013-03-03T17:00:38.614-08:00I thought there was a great response to the Mayer ...I thought there was a great response to the Mayer controversy at a personal blog that dealt with the Mayer issue in just that way (using these stories as a way of opening up conversation about the working poor, rather than attacking Mayer). You might like it: <br />http://domesticpolitics.wordpress.com/<br /><br />Erinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-57460327909796709102013-03-03T16:53:59.370-08:002013-03-03T16:53:59.370-08:00You said it all in that last sentence :)
"Ma...You said it all in that last sentence :)<br /><br />"Marissa Mayer and Sheryl Sandberg have difficult, high pressure jobs, and single-handedly fixing the problems of all working parents is not in either of their job descriptions"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-5113670633648369592013-03-03T16:04:58.786-08:002013-03-03T16:04:58.786-08:00One thing I'd like to ask the people who are a...One thing I'd like to ask the people who are angry with Sandberg's book is: is her advice WRONG for women of color and women from less-advantaged backgrounds? Or is it just a lot harder to follow her advice if you aren't in the same socioeconomic group as she is? If it is flat out bad advice for women who don't look like her, then I think there are more reasonable grounds for criticism, particularly if she isn't sensitive to that. <br /><br />From what I can tell, though, the concern is more that if you aren't starting from a fair amount of class privilege you'll have a much harder time following her advice, but that if you manage to follow the advice, it is likely to be good advice. In which case, I agree with you: hers is one voice among what should be many. If the problem is that the other voices aren't getting heard, let's work on that. We can do that without shouting down Sandberg's voice.Cloudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317847285050447789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-65914805188439984392013-03-03T15:58:12.251-08:002013-03-03T15:58:12.251-08:00Ha! I have nothing against Facebook, really. I don...Ha! I have nothing against Facebook, really. I don't care for the way they handle privacy policy, and between that and the fact that I think it would suck way too much time away from me, I've just never felt the need to join.Cloudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317847285050447789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-962464196358140302013-03-03T15:57:12.275-08:002013-03-03T15:57:12.275-08:00Sure, go ahead! In general, if I pushed the "...Sure, go ahead! In general, if I pushed the "post" button, I am OK with the post getting shared wherever you want. Cloudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317847285050447789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-48424383616963636562013-03-03T11:53:11.963-08:002013-03-03T11:53:11.963-08:00Amen! It makes me livid to read feminist comments...Amen! It makes me livid to read feminist comments attacking Sandberg, a fellow feminist, for daring to write a book directed at the problems faced by college educated, largely white, women. I felt the same after that article in the Atlantic started making the rounds. I loved the article, and I like Sandberg's ideas. No, she is not speaking for all women; yes, it's true her book may elide the experiences and needs of working class women (although she also talks about structural inequalities and leave policies that affect all women). Jill @ feministe wrote in support of SS, and most of the comments were so aggravating - she's not speaking for me, she didn't write the book that I wanted her to, how dare she! So now unless a woman is talking about all women everywhere in everything she writes, she's not allowed to speak publicly? I tried to write in a say, how about we view SS as *one voice* contributing to *one part* of a multifaceted conversation, and we can also listen to other voices talking about other aspects? It sometimes makes me understand clearly why people don't like women/social justice movements. There is a lot of policing and not a lot compassion/trying to get where someone is coming from (ironically).<br /><br />I agree with you, Cloud, about the public sector, and frankly that's why I'm so discouraged about the whole thing, and so pessimistic about anything changing. If we have to fight to the death to get the Violence against women act renewed (because godforbid we protect Native American women from violence!) I don't see paid family leave on the horizon. I've always thought it was absurd to expect companies to provide 6 months + of paid family leave. IMO, that's what gov't should do, as opposed to the private sector. But in the current political situation, there is no space for the public sector, so women and children are kind of screwed.Erinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-14657926828372176672013-03-03T11:51:24.354-08:002013-03-03T11:51:24.354-08:00Yes, I did notice the irony/absurdity in that requ...Yes, I did notice the irony/absurdity in that request. Karynnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-64654098061660769562013-03-03T11:50:20.941-08:002013-03-03T11:50:20.941-08:00I think I love you. Thank you for writing this, a...I think I love you. Thank you for writing this, all I've been able to articulate is how angry I am. I am angry with MM but also with the lot of them and you articulated the thoughts bouncing around in my head. If you don't mind I'd like to link to you on FB.<br /><br />Karynnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-15465176111830685832013-03-03T09:47:33.303-08:002013-03-03T09:47:33.303-08:00I was going to dig up Hush's comments too and ...I was going to dig up Hush's comments too and post here, but I couldn't remember which blog I'd seen her post them on! And I think she's spot on with that comment-- the studies done are not on innovation, but something with easily measured productivity (a call-center). The email itself talks about innovation as well, not productivity.<br /><br />Hush-- you should write your own post! For, you know, posterity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com