tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post6185165068562440713..comments2024-02-05T05:15:04.759-08:00Comments on Wandering Scientist: The Hidden Cost of AcceptanceCloudhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09317847285050447789noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-69830488238932593312012-09-19T14:30:22.195-07:002012-09-19T14:30:22.195-07:00I work in a male-dominated industry (AV). I've...I work in a male-dominated industry (AV). I've discovered that I have to be the absolute best at what I do in order to get real acceptance from a lot of the folks that I encounter. It's pushed me to truly excel, but it sure is exhausting!<br /><br />In a truly equal world, I could be accepted as mediocre. :pHopehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11758371932904469984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-91112668000030239162012-09-17T23:16:15.622-07:002012-09-17T23:16:15.622-07:00Oh yes, the basic math is in my favor definitely. ...Oh yes, the basic math is in my favor definitely. Just I suppose it's the bit where, as Cloud mentioned above, did the sexism at the higher levels still win out? Could I have gotten the better money, more work from home and been heard about the crap work environment if they weren't sexist and ageist and so taken me more seriously rather than dismissing my very valid points as those of, say, an "inexperienced, unseasoned young woman"? <br /><br />Question obviously will go unanswered but that's what was left on my mind when I exited. Revanchehttp://www.agaishanlife.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-64887542900736790362012-09-16T13:25:26.994-07:002012-09-16T13:25:26.994-07:00@nicoleandmaggie - in contrast to @hush, I'm w...@nicoleandmaggie - in contrast to @hush, I'm with you.Alexicographernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-38359959280254743612012-09-14T18:13:12.426-07:002012-09-14T18:13:12.426-07:00I know those weights too and it sucks. I do see p...I know those weights too and it sucks. I do see progress though - the weights of many of my mentors were much heavier and made it impossible for so many women to pursue the full set of experiences they wanted out of life. How do I handle those weights? For me part of it is knowing that pushing on as a female scientist helps if not eliminate, make the weight on the next set of women coming up through the field a little lighter. I also have to thank you because I think every time we share our stories we help each other carry the weight together. ThanksAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-9048781631774082242012-09-14T10:38:28.922-07:002012-09-14T10:38:28.922-07:00@nicoleandmaggie - I'm with your parents.@nicoleandmaggie - I'm with your parents.hushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05532820460835325762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-3871071017425675422012-09-14T06:18:20.272-07:002012-09-14T06:18:20.272-07:00As an economist, I think Obama has been great. He...As an economist, I think Obama has been great. He's quietly pushed through a lot of pragmatic legislation based on real research. His two failings are communicating his accomplishments and politically not effectively checking republicans who refused to allow appointments and things to be approved. And some of that failing came from following academic research that turns out not to apply if you're not, say, Clinton. My colleagues say he is similar to George HW Bush in many ways.<br /><br />My parents are more progressive and less pragmatic, and they're disappointed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-19815570606647665292012-09-14T05:03:31.264-07:002012-09-14T05:03:31.264-07:00Given that you got more money and a shorter commut...Given that you got more money and a shorter commute, I would say that's a win for you and a loss for their company. Even ignoring work conditions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-72307977014586754952012-09-13T23:13:29.957-07:002012-09-13T23:13:29.957-07:00Not sure where to start. I was feeling those weigh...Not sure where to start. I was feeling those weights, all about my ankles, waist and wrists even, honestly, up til last weeks when I shed them and walked away. <br /><br />I honestly hadn't even thought about the behavios being sexism/ageism until my (just noting, very Republican) friend pointed out that his idiotic disrespect was probably centered on his feeling threatened by the fact that I was a youthful, petite Asian woman in charge of a very large and profitable operation over which he had no control and no equivalent expertise. <br /><br />I pushed back, and hard, for months but, without getting into details, there was no traction and I decided that leaving made the most sense for me. I did agonize over whether that meant that I was a failure for not sticking it out until I won. <br /><br />Ultimately, I still left, and I think at peace with the decision because it's good and doesn't really matter what happens to what I left behind but for a while I did wonder if I had done the best I could to fight back against creeping sexism and other -isms. <br /> <br />Something I have noticed - I tolerated this sort of BS for a very long run at my last gig. I tolerated it for about a fifth of that time here, despite having far more seniority and authority. It seems my BS-meter is much more easily broken these days, I can't see my putting up with very much nonsense in future jobs either whether it be stamping it out or walking away if it's let in by other people. Revanchehttp://www.agaishanlife.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-2018426191075162652012-09-13T22:25:58.939-07:002012-09-13T22:25:58.939-07:00This should have been after the above comments by ...This should have been after the above comments by Laura and Cloud and Alexicographer re Obama. GMPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17872461021953583473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-38704258392828933632012-09-13T22:21:14.452-07:002012-09-13T22:21:14.452-07:00Of course, by being a non-white president, he had ...Of course, by being a non-white president, he had a mountain of expectations in front of him, and by virtue of being human (and having a shitty House) he failed to effortlessly conquer them all. He would have to be much better than most presidents to simply be called OK. And all he does, the good and the bad (particularly the bad) automatically get ascribed to all potential black leaders. <br /><br />We know it all too well, amirite? <br /><br /><a href="http://xkcd.com/385/" rel="nofollow">http://xkcd.com/385/</a><br /><br />(Sorry I am in such a foul mood. Dealing with the crap work done by my former student made me lose the will to live.)GMPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17872461021953583473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-76165198517829240632012-09-13T21:37:01.048-07:002012-09-13T21:37:01.048-07:00@Laura- that is a good point. I never expected to ...@Laura- that is a good point. I never expected to see our first black president, either. Racism runs as deep as sexism in this country. So who knows? Maybe I'll have another night like the one when Obama was elected, and I struggled to believe it was really happening. I remember crying that night. I went back and looked up the post I wrote: <a href="http://www.wandering-scientist.com/2008/11/proud.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.wandering-scientist.com/2008/11/proud.html</a><br /><br />A lot has happened in the intervening years, and the luster is definitely off of Obama's presidency. But that was always going to happen when he had to actually do things. It is worth remembering how much he achieved just by being elected. Cloudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317847285050447789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-64933841387529554252012-09-13T20:20:13.566-07:002012-09-13T20:20:13.566-07:00Perhaps I am too cynical. But I perceive misogyny ...Perhaps I am too cynical. But I perceive misogyny to be a strong, unwavering societal force. GMPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17872461021953583473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-58156685486774734552012-09-13T19:38:07.319-07:002012-09-13T19:38:07.319-07:00I thought our first black president would have to ...I thought our first black president would have to be a Republican too -- I thought people would assume a black Democrat would be too liberal, whereas a black Republican would be perceived as on the moderate wing of the party. But along came Obama and blew that theory out of the water. So who knows? I think a lot of people in, say, 2000 were thinking we wouldn't see a black president in our lifetimes. So I wouldn't write off a woman president either -- of either party. There's starting to be a deep bench on both sides. Laura Vanderkamhttp://www.lauravanderkam.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-49309370033723834002012-09-13T05:54:06.303-07:002012-09-13T05:54:06.303-07:00Part of what was really electrifying about Michell...Part of what was really electrifying about Michelle Obama's speech was her delivery. It was perfect - she sounded as though she meant every word passionately. As nicoleandmaggie say, it was deeply moving. (I say this as someone who, like you, never watches conventions and is not interested in speeches. But I watched hers on youtube and I was really glad I did.)Erinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-48853912710057063482012-09-13T03:43:26.936-07:002012-09-13T03:43:26.936-07:00This resonates with me too. Last week I gave a pre...This resonates with me too. Last week I gave a presentation to some students about my career path. At the end one of the students asked if I've experienced any challenges in research, as a woman. I wasn't sure how to answer. Sure there have been a few incidents that I could point to, but mentioning them sounds really trivial, not what I would call a challenge. But I didn't want to dismiss the idea that women face real challenges, by saying oh no, I never experienced sexism. So I said something about the accumulation of micro-inequalities, and made some more general comments about challenges faced by women. Actually FSP made be recognise that seemingly small things like constantly being mistaken for a student can add up to make you feel like you don't belong. zednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-14845489972101092062012-09-12T22:37:00.400-07:002012-09-12T22:37:00.400-07:00Thanks! I think I remember that post. I should go ...Thanks! I think I remember that post. I should go reread it. FSP usually has good things to say on these subjects.Cloudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317847285050447789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-24137262900971189702012-09-12T22:36:06.398-07:002012-09-12T22:36:06.398-07:00I can usually tolerate this sort of stuff from ran...I can usually tolerate this sort of stuff from random women in my private life. Usually. It was the elevation of it to the national stage that got to me, I think. Cloudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317847285050447789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-79095024072202279712012-09-12T22:35:05.932-07:002012-09-12T22:35:05.932-07:00Thanks! I think female-dominated industries come w...Thanks! I think female-dominated industries come with their own issues, usually to do with compensation and respect from the general public. I don't know what the analogy is for that, though. Hmmm....Cloudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317847285050447789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-48089550209654615772012-09-12T22:33:43.197-07:002012-09-12T22:33:43.197-07:00Oh, that's too bad! It sucks when you can'...Oh, that's too bad! It sucks when you can't tell if people are dissing the role or you. I get that a lot, too. Project managers often don't get a lot of respect.Cloudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317847285050447789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-25138333196484257542012-09-12T22:32:52.187-07:002012-09-12T22:32:52.187-07:00Oooh, the "lifting a ton of feathers" an...Oooh, the "lifting a ton of feathers" analogy is a good one! I may look for that book.<br /><br />I do think that staying around and being a role model is valuable. I'm not sure I'm making myself visible enough outside my own company to really be doing that, though. My involvement in AWIS and similar organizations is one of the things I cut when I had kids.Cloudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317847285050447789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-89412164260141343382012-09-12T22:31:22.041-07:002012-09-12T22:31:22.041-07:00I have long thought that our first female presiden...I have long thought that our first female president will be a conservative Republican, because that would defang some of the sexist attacks.<br /><br />On Michelle Obama... I figure it just isn't what she wants to do. She was an administrator. Barack Obama was always the more political one of the two. What will be really interesting is to see what each of them does AFTER they are out of the White House.<br /><br />I'm glad you like the analogy. I tried several before I settled on that one! To be clear- I'm not thinking of scaling back my work. That would not be the right choice for me (unless the scaling back coincided with a lot of travel, and with a school age kid, that isn't in the cards). I am thinking of changing to a different sort of work.Cloudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317847285050447789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-49049649657843049742012-09-12T22:28:16.311-07:002012-09-12T22:28:16.311-07:00You know, it has gotten better over the course of ...You know, it has gotten better over the course of my career. I don't know if that is because I am more senior and less dismissable, or if it is actually getting better. I do hope that things are much better for my girls. Realistically, I know that they will still face similar problems, though.Cloudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317847285050447789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-52290524156320125832012-09-12T22:27:02.116-07:002012-09-12T22:27:02.116-07:00I read Bill Clinton's speech, too. Actually, I...I read Bill Clinton's speech, too. Actually, I read the version that showed what he'd written and what he actually said. That was amazing. I read Michelle Obama's speech, too, and thought it was good.<br /><br />I think part of my problem right now is that I'm not happy at work, and I can't tease apart what part is sexism (where my instinct is also to stay and fight), what part is overwork (which I could fix if I could find a junior PM to hire), and what part is that this isn't the right thing for me to be doing. So I'm feeling uncharacteristically paralyzed and unable to figure out what the right thing to do is. Cloudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317847285050447789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-29376247984709464572012-09-12T18:52:34.478-07:002012-09-12T18:52:34.478-07:00FSP had a post on micro-inequities here
http://sc...FSP had a post on micro-inequities here<br /><br />http://science-professor.blogspot.com/2009/09/start-seeing-micro-inequities.html<br /><br />Yael left this link on my site a few days ago. <br /><br />I have nothing to add, except that I understand what you are saying. And it is so very exhausting. GMPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17872461021953583473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29235839.post-72525741894566778172012-09-12T18:50:46.007-07:002012-09-12T18:50:46.007-07:00I love Michelle Obama, I love Hillary Clinton too...I love Michelle Obama, I love Hillary Clinton too. But I agree with Alexicographer: the US is more likely to elect a flourescent green male president than a woman. I don't think we'll have a woman president in my lifetime. <br /><br />I have no doubt that both Michelle Obama and Hillary Clinton would make kickass presidents. They just won't be given the chance. GMPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17872461021953583473noreply@blogger.com